Episode 16

“Thanks For the Little While” with Alan Pedersen – PART II

Published on: 17th September, 2020

Today we welcome back the show Mr. Alan Pedersen from, Angels Across the USA Tour. This is of course, as the title denotes the second part of our conversation with Alan. If you missed episode 15 please press pause and listen to Part I and then come back and pick up the remaining conversation here in episode 16. In today’s discussion Alan talks about many things such as understanding how your kids grieve differently and realizing just how important it is to find support that works for you. His wisdom and understanding gained through his journey provide so much hope that you can help but smile!

 

Alan has been on his journey of grief for over 19 years. The loss of his 18-year old daughter changed the direction of his life. Alan has spent the past 17 years helping others with their grief, writing and singing his songs and leading grief organizations. Alan has a unique message and delivery as he signs some of his “Love” songs about grief and talks about the grief journey at hundreds of small groups across the country! Alan’s van is covered with thousands of “butterflies” of our angels with their name and home city. “Our angels” travel with Alan on these cross-country trips. Alan offers up valuable insights into the process and journey of grief as well as valuable tools for dealing with your grief.  If you’d like to help sponsor Alan’s tour you may go here to fund your angel’s butterfly on his van: https://angelsacrosstheusa.org/Sponsor-The-Tour

 

 

We welcome your comments and questions! Send an email to hopethrugrief@gmail.com and please share our show with anyone you know that is struggling with loss and grief. You can find us on the internet to continue the conversation!

 

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Jordan Smelski Foundation: http://www.jordansmelskifoundation.org

 

Tune in for new episodes every Thursday morning wherever you listen to podcasts!

 

Marshall Adler and Steve Smelski, co-hosts of Hope Thru Grief are not medical, or mental health professionals, therefore we cannot and will not give any medical, or mental health advice. If you, or anyone you know needs medical, or mental health treatment, please contact a medical, or mental health professional immediately.

 

Thank you

Marshall Adler

Steve Smelski

Transcript
Steve Smelski:

Hello, my name is Steve Smelski and welcome to Hope thru Grief.

Steve Smelski:

I'm here with my good friend and cohost Marshall Adler and getting ready to

Steve Smelski:

listen to the part two of the interview that we had with Alan Peterson.

Steve Smelski:

We had a lot of great information that we covered in part one, and I

Steve Smelski:

think you're going to really enjoy part two as we listen through the

Steve Smelski:

rest of our conversation with Alan.

Steve Smelski:

Remember, if you've got any questions for us, please send them

Steve Smelski:

in through our website and we'll bring them up and try and get answers

Steve Smelski:

to you over the next few weeks.

Steve Smelski:

And once again, welcome to Hope thru Grief and enjoy part two with Alan Peterson.

Steve Smelski:

So you mentioned that you had a lot of help early on with grief.

Steve Smelski:

Who did you, I know you've spoken with some of the doctors and I know you

Steve Smelski:

were pretty close to a couple of them.

Alan Peterson:

Yeah, again to say I was a fortunate griever

Alan Peterson:

is, I mean, it's at every step.

Alan Peterson:

So I took that 10 week grief program.

Alan Peterson:

Now, as people are calling me, we'd go out and speak at events.

Alan Peterson:

I'm getting invited.

Alan Peterson:

There's not really a, um, a bereaved dad.

Alan Peterson:

Who's a you know, I'd been in the music business who was a musician and

Alan Peterson:

a song writer and a recording artist.

Alan Peterson:

And now there's the, so I'm kind of this anomaly in a way.

Alan Peterson:

So I got invited to Vancouver, British Columbia to play, but the

Alan Peterson:

world gathering on bereavement and this was a 2000 just right.

Alan Peterson:

I'd been on the road maybe a year.

Alan Peterson:

So I went there and they just wanted me to play music, you know, in fact

Alan Peterson:

that the guy who ran it and he was a great guy, ended up being a great

Alan Peterson:

friend of mine, but he said, don't talk.

Alan Peterson:

Introduce a song for a second.

Alan Peterson:

And if you're up there longer than 20 minutes of floor is going to open

Alan Peterson:

up, we're going to drop you below the stage because Brian tight schedule.

Alan Peterson:

But I got a chance to meet a woman there who is at the time and probably will

Alan Peterson:

always go down as one of the greatest minds ever on grief and loss in her name.

Alan Peterson:

Dr.

Alan Peterson:

Darcy Sams, sadly Darcy died about five years ago, but she heard

Alan Peterson:

me as saying, and we talked and she said, you know what, Allen.

Alan Peterson:

You're going to be a big voice in the grief world.

Alan Peterson:

You're going to be one of the biggest.

Alan Peterson:

And she said, I am going to help you every step of the way and that she did.

Alan Peterson:

And she became my mentor and it was through her American Grief

Alan Peterson:

Academy that, that I was certified.

Alan Peterson:

And I know over the years we ended up, there's a series.

Alan Peterson:

It's a bit like GriefShare, but it's calledWalking Through

Alan Peterson:

Grief that I wrote and edited.

Alan Peterson:

And it's used a lot in military uses a lot.

Alan Peterson:

The Catholic church uses that a lot, but it's a 10 week program.

Alan Peterson:

Darcy was my cohost in it.

Alan Peterson:

So we brought people in from all over the country with all types of losses,

Alan Peterson:

but we wrote workshops together.

Alan Peterson:

She helped me write my healing, guilt and regret workshop, which has just been

Alan Peterson:

the adjusted bet, an amazing gift to present that workshop up to families.

Alan Peterson:

You know, most people who lost a child or had a close loss there, some regret,

Alan Peterson:

or there's some guilt associated with it.

Alan Peterson:

And so that has become just a wonderful work.

Alan Peterson:

So I was blessed to meet her, Dr.

Alan Peterson:

Gloria Horsley and Dr.

Alan Peterson:

Heidi Horsley from Open to Hope, which is the largest grief

Alan Peterson:

resource website in the world.

Alan Peterson:

And they get over a million visitors.

Alan Peterson:

They also do a podcast, but I've hosted radio programs.

Alan Peterson:

A cohost had been a guest on there and done music on.

Alan Peterson:

I don't know, 30 to 40 of their television, radio and podcasts.

Alan Peterson:

And we present workshops around the country, Dr.

Alan Peterson:

Bob Bauer from the Seattle.

Alan Peterson:

Uh, Washington area, another great professional.

Alan Peterson:

So I had these people at my beck and call that just mentored me and

Alan Peterson:

taught me how to do the work right.

Alan Peterson:

And, um, because there's not a lot of people who do , you know what I do.

Alan Peterson:

So, uh, yeah.

Alan Peterson:

How fortunate am I?

Alan Peterson:

And, and still today to have those people in my life, and they're the

Alan Peterson:

biggest fans of mine and biggest supporters of mine out on tour as well.

Steve Smelski:

That's awesome.

Steve Smelski:

So I do have to say grief affects your short term memory.

Steve Smelski:

Cause I had it written down here, Angels Across the USA tour and

Steve Smelski:

I said across America, but....

Alan Peterson:

People that have known 10 years still saying Angels across America.

Alan Peterson:

They introduced me that way probably half the time, because that's, you know,

Alan Peterson:

like I say nothing wrong with being associated with them Victoria's Secret.

Alan Peterson:

Neither of you have ever been associated.

Steve Smelski:

I have not

Marshall Adler:

no

Alan Peterson:

Just want Ashley would get a kick out of that.

Alan Peterson:

And I'm sure Matt and Jordan would as well that we have a connection to that,

Alan Peterson:

to the models that Victoria Secret.

Alan Peterson:

That's a story right there.

Marshall Adler:

Let me ask you this.

Marshall Adler:

You mentioned your two sons.

Marshall Adler:

How was their grief journey been?

Marshall Adler:

Because I know when I talked to my son, David, his grief

Marshall Adler:

journey is just so different as a brother versus mine as a parent.

Marshall Adler:

And, you know, he mentioned something that I think is true, that when a parent

Marshall Adler:

loses a child, it's almost natural, that society is going to give almost all

Marshall Adler:

the attention to the grieving parent.

Marshall Adler:

And the grieving sibling is not the major focus of their attention when their loss

Marshall Adler:

is every bit as good as, I mean, as, as, as, as, as important as the parent and,

Marshall Adler:

you know, genetically they're actually closer to the sibling than the parent is.

Marshall Adler:

They've got this connection there that is just so different.

Marshall Adler:

So how, how has your son's journeys of grief been different than yours or

Marshall Adler:

have you helped them through theirs?

Marshall Adler:

I'm always interested in that because it's just such a different

Marshall Adler:

dynamic as a parent versus a sibling

Alan Peterson:

That is one of the most asked questions of families

Alan Peterson:

that have more than, than one child.

Alan Peterson:

And once again, I go back to where I had.

Alan Peterson:

Just the best Dr.

Alan Peterson:

Heidi Horsley, who I just mentioned, I was part of open

Alan Peterson:

to hope is a grievance sibling.

Alan Peterson:

Uh, her son Scott died in an automobile accident many years ago.

Alan Peterson:

Her mom, Gloria Horsley.

Alan Peterson:

They're both obviously great professionals as a bereaved parent.

Alan Peterson:

And in working with them over the years, I was so fortunate because

Alan Peterson:

Heidi is probably the world's foremost expert on a sibling loss.

Alan Peterson:

As a matter of fact, she's a professor at Columbia University and she moved

Alan Peterson:

back to New York from San Francisco because when 9/11 happened, because they

Alan Peterson:

asked her to come back and be part of a long term study on sibling loss in

Alan Peterson:

firefighters, there were so many there that they wanted to do some research.

Alan Peterson:

And so I had, you know, I just like, and you stated it just very well, Marshall,

Alan Peterson:

the grief journey is different and you know, depending on the age of siblings,

Alan Peterson:

but siblings grieve differently.

Alan Peterson:

Often, you know, siblings, I was taught will grieve in spurts.

Alan Peterson:

So I couldn't understand my kids.

Alan Peterson:

Yeah.

Alan Peterson:

I think they're grieving my boys.

Alan Peterson:

And then they're out shooting baskets or playing video games, like, like,

Alan Peterson:

like nothing happened, what they don't understand about us as why

Alan Peterson:

we seem to be in it all the time, because they can't imagine it.

Alan Peterson:

And the other thing that you said that is the number one thing is a

Alan Peterson:

friend of mine named Jordan Ferber.

Alan Peterson:

I think he is, he does a podcast called Where's the Grief ? And

Alan Peterson:

it's, he's a sibling ,bereaved sibling, and he does a wonderful

Alan Peterson:

workshop called How's your Mother?

Alan Peterson:

And, uh, and it's exactly the point that you were alluding to is the support

Alan Peterson:

those to the mother, or they'll say to the siblings, Oh, you gotta be strong.

Alan Peterson:

You got, you got, gotta do this.

Alan Peterson:

And I think what I learned in sibling loss and how I was able

Alan Peterson:

to work with my boys, it helped, but it was still a real struggle.

Alan Peterson:

I think boys in grief are difficult anyway, but our family dynamic changes.

Alan Peterson:

And when we talk about loss, man, we, we lose this child and our family,

Alan Peterson:

this, this brother, this sister, but we often don't talk about the

Alan Peterson:

family dynamics and how they change.

Alan Peterson:

And it's like that kitchen table that loses a leg.

Alan Peterson:

Wow, we just had some lightening here.

Alan Peterson:

Some thunder here.

Alan Peterson:

I don't know if you heard that.

Alan Peterson:

Um....

Steve Smelski:

Yes

Marshall Adler:

Yes, we did

Alan Peterson:

but the dynamic changes dramatically and children

Alan Peterson:

play a role within the family.

Alan Peterson:

And so those roles change.

Alan Peterson:

So what I was able to do, I used to say that my two sons.

Alan Peterson:

I had one that wouldn't talk about it.

Alan Peterson:

And one that wouldn't shut up about it.

Alan Peterson:

And that i had to learn this the greatest gift that we can give to each other and

Alan Peterson:

our families is the gift of tolerance.

Alan Peterson:

So when I accept that you're going to grieve differently

Alan Peterson:

than me then that's okay.

Alan Peterson:

And so what we try to do, and depending on the age of, of the siblings is to

Alan Peterson:

say, look, I know you don't want to sit around and talk about Matt all

Alan Peterson:

the time, but here's the thing on this occasion and that occasion and

Alan Peterson:

this occasion, could you give me that?

Alan Peterson:

And in return when you want space, I'll give you space and what siblings

Alan Peterson:

tell us and if you, if you can get to a Compassionate Friends Conference,

Alan Peterson:

and hopefully we have ours live and in person in Detroit next year Marshall, we

Alan Peterson:

actually bring siblings in and put them on a panel and have parents come in and

Alan Peterson:

just ask questions of these siblings.

Alan Peterson:

And they'll tell us all of the ways that we can help them forcing them to talk.

Alan Peterson:

Forcing them into therapy.

Alan Peterson:

Those things are, you know, they're not necessarily helpful , but

Alan Peterson:

then we also want our siblings to understand that our greatest fear

Alan Peterson:

is that we would lose another child.

Alan Peterson:

It's always there.

Alan Peterson:

And so we become maniac parents sometimes , we can't help it.

Alan Peterson:

Wow.

Alan Peterson:

I am like in the middle of the storm, but we can become maniac parents.

Alan Peterson:

So it's a fine line, but the tolerance with my boys to let them

Alan Peterson:

grieve the way they did, you know, my son who wouldn't talk about it.

Alan Peterson:

It's just like a crazy story.

Alan Peterson:

You know, they were younger than Ashley, but about five years after Ashley died,

Alan Peterson:

that son was sitting with me and we were playing songs on random play on an iPod.

Alan Peterson:

And one of my songs came on, I've done four CDs.

Alan Peterson:

And I think the song was called Daddy, how high is the moon was the song.

Alan Peterson:

And well, it's hard for me to even tell this story without choking up,

Alan Peterson:

but my son heard the song and he came over and he sat on my lap and threw his

Alan Peterson:

arms around me and just began bawling and just said, Dad I miss her too.

Alan Peterson:

So those moments, uh, you know, they come, when we don't expect it, but

Alan Peterson:

if we offer the open opportunity and we keep our kids alive in our lives,

Alan Peterson:

our kids are talking to somebody.

Alan Peterson:

They have friends that they talk to, but yet on the other hand, we want to keep a

Alan Peterson:

keen eye on them to make sure that they're keeping it between the lines you know.

Alan Peterson:

But it's hard, you know, those are some of the hardest parts of the journey is we

Alan Peterson:

are just trying to take care of ourselves.

Alan Peterson:

As I look back the first two years, man, I'm just trying to get my socks on the

Alan Peterson:

right, the right color on each foot and my shoes on and to brush my teeth and to

Alan Peterson:

even function and they're grieving too.

Alan Peterson:

So it's something that the more we can learn about how we can be a blessing to

Alan Peterson:

each and give tolerance to each other.

Alan Peterson:

And the less we try to tell each other, there's my way.

Alan Peterson:

No, there's my way.

Alan Peterson:

And there's your way.

Alan Peterson:

Tell me about your way.

Alan Peterson:

Tell me how I can help you, my son or my daughter to grieve your way, how

Alan Peterson:

can I be a support and a blessing?

Alan Peterson:

And I'll tell you how you can be a support and a blessing to me in my way.

Alan Peterson:

And one last thing, one thing with boys, I think is an issue, but boys can certainly,

Alan Peterson:

and girls too, but anger can come in down the road and, you know, we can find

Alan Peterson:

it five years, six years down the road.

Alan Peterson:

There's this deep underlying anger.

Alan Peterson:

And sometimes it can just be that somebody said, Hey, you

Alan Peterson:

gotta be strong for mom and dad.

Alan Peterson:

You gotta push it down.

Alan Peterson:

So if we can just get an open enough dialogue.

Alan Peterson:

To talk about what we want to do, or don't want to talk about, we can get through

Alan Peterson:

it together as a family, but tolerance to me is the absolute key to that.

Alan Peterson:

And the same way with spouses or anybody in our life tolerance to let you feel what

Alan Peterson:

you feel for as long as you need to feel it and for you to give me that same thing.

Marshall Adler:

Yeah.

Marshall Adler:

I think the tolerance is such a great thing for you to say,

Marshall Adler:

because where you mentioned about the fear of losing another child.

Marshall Adler:

I had to think long and hard about that because I wanted Dave to live the life

Marshall Adler:

he was destined to live, even though we had to live it without his brother.

Marshall Adler:

And, you know, they were two totally different kids there's no two ways about

Marshall Adler:

it, but they really loved each other and they had a great commonality to them.

Marshall Adler:

And now that Matt's gone, I see a lot of Matt and Dave I didn't see before.

Marshall Adler:

It's funny, but I know Dave wants to achieve the best life he can and

Marshall Adler:

make his brother very proud of him.

Marshall Adler:

But as a parent, again, where I talked about before the

Marshall Adler:

illusion and delusion of control.

Marshall Adler:

After you lose a child, you realize none of us live in a bell jar.

Marshall Adler:

He can't, and life is the one certainty of life is uncertainty.

Marshall Adler:

And that's the one thing that I think I've tried to really be cognizant of that

Marshall Adler:

had, you know, if I I'll call Dave and he doesn't pick up, he doesn't pick up.

Marshall Adler:

Hopefully get a call back from him soon.

Marshall Adler:

And that's just part of life that I gotta wait for that call back.

Marshall Adler:

And it would be unfair to him to have Matt's loss adversely affect him in

Marshall Adler:

that way, where I'd be too hovering.

Marshall Adler:

There was a lightening ball ride, maybe a, the sign from somebody saying, right.

Marshall Adler:

Do the right thing here.

Marshall Adler:

Just, I really think what you said about tolerances.

Marshall Adler:

It's great.

Marshall Adler:

It cuts both ways because we have to be tolerant of our children.

Marshall Adler:

And I think when we are, our children are tolerant of us.

Alan Peterson:

Yeah.

Marshall Adler:

Which is, which is a blessing.

Alan Peterson:

Absolutely.

Steve Smelski:

Allen you, um, You've done a lot of interviews over the years.

Steve Smelski:

You've stop all over the U S on your tours.

Steve Smelski:

When you know, you're only going to get one to two minutes on the air.

Steve Smelski:

Most of the time, what are the two or three things that you want

Steve Smelski:

to get across when you do those interviews, talking about grief or

Steve Smelski:

sharing about your journey of grief?

Alan Peterson:

Well, that's a, that is a great question.

Alan Peterson:

It's something I talk about a lot.

Alan Peterson:

Yeah.

Alan Peterson:

You know, you, you, um, I don't care if you're in a big town or a small town.

Alan Peterson:

And if somebody interviews you.

Alan Peterson:

The question that I get in some form or fashion every time is Alan, how does

Alan Peterson:

somebody get through a loss like this?

Alan Peterson:

How do they do it?

Alan Peterson:

And, you know, I, I jokingly say, okay, so that's like a set of books part one, or a

Alan Peterson:

whole weekend full of workshops, part one.

Alan Peterson:

It's a big question.

Alan Peterson:

This loss is so multi-faceted and so complex, but I realized that I had to give

Alan Peterson:

a quick answer to a very complex question.

Alan Peterson:

So this is how I answered the question.

Alan Peterson:

How do people get through a loss like this?

Alan Peterson:

Number one is you find support, whatever that means to you.

Alan Peterson:

Not everybody wants to go and sit in a, a circle, a support group,

Alan Peterson:

but find support from somebody who's had a loss, similar to yours.

Alan Peterson:

And if you can get with a group of people more than one so that

Alan Peterson:

they can normalize your loss.

Alan Peterson:

I talked about that earlier in the interview.

Alan Peterson:

It's the most important valid, if the number one thing that

Alan Peterson:

any of us seek is validation.

Alan Peterson:

So find support, whatever that means to you, a friend or a support

Alan Peterson:

group and second of all, educate yourself about the grieving process.

Alan Peterson:

And then if I can expand on that, you know, and that's what

Alan Peterson:

I would tell them in support.

Alan Peterson:

You know, if it's someone from school, someone on Facebook, someone in your

Alan Peterson:

church, I'm on your, your golf club, wherever where you can just spend some

Alan Peterson:

time with somebody that you can talk to.

Alan Peterson:

When you get squirrely, cause we do get squirly in this grief who will look

Alan Peterson:

at you and reminds you that you're not crazy that you are doing the most natural

Alan Peterson:

and normal thing you could be doing.

Alan Peterson:

You are grieving and that in itself helps him, I guess, the number one

Alan Peterson:

thing, when we go to a grief group or we buy a book on grief or we listen

Alan Peterson:

to a podcast, the number one thing we're looking for is validation.

Alan Peterson:

And validation.

Alan Peterson:

I saw a quot I think I put it up on my Facebook the other day,

Alan Peterson:

one of the best quotes I've ever seen on giving someone validation.

Alan Peterson:

And that means to accept their version of what they're feeling,

Alan Peterson:

not what you think, the experience of what they're going through.

Alan Peterson:

And that's a huge difference is to just sit and listen.

Alan Peterson:

And to let you tell your story and talk about what you're feeling

Alan Peterson:

without trying to have a having me to try to figure it out for you.

Alan Peterson:

And then when I say educate yourself about the grieving process, I don't

Alan Peterson:

mean you have to go get, uh, be a certified grief recovery specialist or

Alan Peterson:

anything like that, but educate yourself a little bit that this is a physical.

Alan Peterson:

You know, most of us have had physical issues and our grief, that it's mental,

Alan Peterson:

you know, we can't remember stuff.

Alan Peterson:

I say we're kind of like a calculator.

Alan Peterson:

That's a missing a three, you know, sometimes things just don't

Alan Peterson:

add up, that's just part of it.

Alan Peterson:

So it's mental, and we can't remember things like we used to it's spiritual.

Alan Peterson:

It can cause a crisis of faith.

Alan Peterson:

And to question everything we thought we ever believed in him about our

Alan Peterson:

creator or whatever our, our faith is.

Alan Peterson:

And, uh, you know, what's fair in life.

Alan Peterson:

We question all those things.

Alan Peterson:

And when the more we understand that it is an assault to all of our whole

Alan Peterson:

being, then the better equipped we become to realize that to walk through it.

Alan Peterson:

It's going to be working on healing, all aspects of our being.

Alan Peterson:

I can look at both of you gentlemen and, and I can tell

Alan Peterson:

you something that I am broken.

Alan Peterson:

Just like you.

Alan Peterson:

I might be nice 10 years down the road and I might, you know, you might say,

Alan Peterson:

wow, he's just real, but you know what?

Alan Peterson:

I still am broken.

Alan Peterson:

Just like both of you.

Alan Peterson:

And I'm glad I am because that broken is the love I have for Ashley and

Alan Peterson:

the desire I continue to have to keep her voice heard and to express

Alan Peterson:

that love because love did not die.

Alan Peterson:

The day are kids died for us.

Alan Peterson:

So if that love is still there, then the question is, what do we do with it?

Alan Peterson:

If it didn't die, it's an energy and it's inside of us and it's gotta be expressed.

Alan Peterson:

How do we continue to fully express that?

Alan Peterson:

So, yeah, it's important that we understand that

Alan Peterson:

keeping that love in action.

Alan Peterson:

Is what actually can, can save our lives.

Alan Peterson:

So, you know, educate yourself about the grieving process.

Alan Peterson:

Learn a little bit about it, and that helps you build, um, to make a plan

Alan Peterson:

and to carry out a plan for how you're going to live the rest of your life.

Alan Peterson:

And so that the rest of your life doesn't have to be.

Alan Peterson:

The death story that for the rest of your life, the number one thing that

Alan Peterson:

we talk about when we talk about Ashley and Jordan and Matt is their deaths, but

Alan Peterson:

we can actually talk about their lives.

Alan Peterson:

We can talk about the life that they are living today through us.

Alan Peterson:

So that's what I say.

Alan Peterson:

Educate yourself, learn a little bit about it, understand how it affects

Alan Peterson:

you so that you can understand how to, but so I'm broken just like

Alan Peterson:

you and me proudly broken, but I want to tell you another thing.

Alan Peterson:

I am also more whole than I have ever been.

Alan Peterson:

No matter what comes my way.

Alan Peterson:

This has been a difficult last year for me, one of the most difficult

Alan Peterson:

personally, uh, relationship wise, businesswise with the COVID that just

Alan Peterson:

wiping me out, uh, literally, but I am more whole today than I have ever

Alan Peterson:

been, because what has been working for me will continue to work for me.

Alan Peterson:

It makes life worth living faith.

Alan Peterson:

And knowing that I'm going to see Ashley again, I believe that, but

Alan Peterson:

understanding what grief is, what grief does, and also knowing that I have

Alan Peterson:

friends all over this country and, uh, who walk with me, who will lay with me

Alan Peterson:

in my grief and who will support me.

Alan Peterson:

To have that in your life is a gift, no matter what your loss or what's, your

Alan Peterson:

story is to have that in your life.

Alan Peterson:

You're a blessed person.

Alan Peterson:

And I can say that.

Alan Peterson:

And that's where grief has taken me

Steve Smelski:

Allen, the first time Shelley and I heard you speak was

Steve Smelski:

in 2015 in Dallas, at the National Convention for the Compassionate Friend.

Steve Smelski:

And then.

Steve Smelski:

I'd never heard you sing before and you sang a couple songs during

Steve Smelski:

the weekend and you got to that last dinner and you sang tonight.

Steve Smelski:

I hold this candle.

Steve Smelski:

I don't think I cried that much except maybe

Alan Peterson:

I'm glad my music can make you cry.

Steve Smelski:

Oh, it was all great tears.

Steve Smelski:

Um, how long did it take you to write that song?

Steve Smelski:

Because it was like, it is perfect.

Alan Peterson:

Well, thank you.

Alan Peterson:

I, uh, that particular song, you know, songs are so different.

Alan Peterson:

I was at the conference in Atlanta, Georgia.

Alan Peterson:

And for those of you out there who don't know the Compassionate Friends is the

Alan Peterson:

largest Greek organization in the world.

Alan Peterson:

And with over 700 chapters, just in the United States, around 700,

Alan Peterson:

we might be less than that now, but our national conferences,

Alan Peterson:

quite a, quite an amazing thing.

Alan Peterson:

And on the Saturday night of our conference, you've got about 1500 parents,

Alan Peterson:

grandparents and siblings standing together, holding candles in honor of

Alan Peterson:

our beautiful children who have died.

Alan Peterson:

And so when I was in Atlanta, uh, that was my first conference all those years ago.

Alan Peterson:

That's when I sold the CDs.

Alan Peterson:

The first one I had, but I wasn't singing, or I was just there

Alan Peterson:

for me to learn about grief.

Alan Peterson:

And when they did the candle lighting service, I'm like, this is like

Alan Peterson:

nothing I've ever experienced.

Alan Peterson:

I was sitting near the front that night and yeah, as all the candles were

Alan Peterson:

lit alone, bagpipe player came into the room, uh, playing amazing grace.

Alan Peterson:

So like, uh, you said, uh, uh, Steve in Dallas, I am just, tears

Alan Peterson:

are coming and I am like, it was a feeling I'd never experienced and so

Alan Peterson:

I went up to my hotel room that night.

Alan Peterson:

After the candle lighting.

Alan Peterson:

And I said, I've got to capture whatever this is that I just felt.

Alan Peterson:

This was just so special.

Alan Peterson:

And so I said, yeah, down and I wrote that song in about 30 minutes and, and,

Alan Peterson:

um, I didn't think a lot about it, songs that I struggle with for two, three

Alan Peterson:

years, but a couple of weeks later I was in Omaha and I played the song for my

Alan Peterson:

mom and she looked at me and she said, honey, That is going to be the song

Alan Peterson:

that you were going to be remembered for which I tell people, you know,

Alan Peterson:

uh, listen to your mom because boy was

Steve Smelski:

She's right.

Alan Peterson:

She right and of all the songs that I've written off, the

Alan Peterson:

four albums that was from my second album, a little farther down the road.

Alan Peterson:

That song is just literally, uh, found its its way all over the world.

Alan Peterson:

It's just been amazing.

Alan Peterson:

It, it crosses all boundaries and, you know, I I've been honored.

Alan Peterson:

I always tell people this it's ironic that Columbine High School, you know, it

Alan Peterson:

happened right in the neighborhood where my Compassionate Friends Chapter happened.

Alan Peterson:

But if you would have told me then that through the years as these horrific

Alan Peterson:

shootings came, I kind of had a perspective on Columbine as a reporter and

Alan Peterson:

then Ashley died, you know, after that.

Alan Peterson:

But that I would play that song tonight.

Alan Peterson:

I held this candle and work with families from Sandy Hook to, uh, you

Alan Peterson:

know, to Parkland, to literally the Pulse Night Club down near you guys

Alan Peterson:

to nearly every, uh, horrific sight.

Alan Peterson:

That song has played or I've been there working with families.

Alan Peterson:

So that song opened up a lot of doors because it crossed so

Alan Peterson:

many boundaries and I still play it every night when I play it.

Alan Peterson:

It is definitely the biggest song of my writing career in it.

Alan Peterson:

And it has allowed me to do the work that I could do because people would

Alan Peterson:

buy that CD just for that song.

Alan Peterson:

So many, well, that was back when we had CDs.

Alan Peterson:

You guys remember those?

Alan Peterson:

You put them in your car and, uh that's how you get your music

Steve Smelski:

I do have that CD that's right.

Steve Smelski:

Marshall, any last thoughts, questions?

Marshall Adler:

You know, it's just been such an interesting conversation

Marshall Adler:

because you know, grief is such a all encompassing and complicated journey.

Marshall Adler:

And, you know, I always love talking to somebody like you,

Marshall Adler:

because as you get older, you realize how much you don't know.

Marshall Adler:

Like, um, I used to tell my kids that my friend Ted that died after Matt died.

Marshall Adler:

I knew him since I was 12 years old.

Marshall Adler:

He was brilliant.

Marshall Adler:

He went to Harvard Law School.

Marshall Adler:

And he was a really unusual guy, went to Harvard Law School.

Marshall Adler:

They did whatever Harvard Law School graduate does he join the Marines.

Marshall Adler:

He was just a crazy guy and he was my all time best friend for like 50 years.

Marshall Adler:

And when we were 17 years old in high school, we used to walk home together.

Marshall Adler:

He went one way, halfway on the trip and I went the other

Marshall Adler:

way, just stand there and talk.

Marshall Adler:

And we jus thought we knew so much about life, that it was easy for us to see.

Marshall Adler:

And I told my kid, I said, I, the rest of my life was realizing

Marshall Adler:

how much, I didn't know.

Marshall Adler:

There was probably the Zenith of my understanding of life

Marshall Adler:

when I was 17 years old.

Marshall Adler:

Because obviously you learn more things and you say, you

Marshall Adler:

don't know this don't know that.

Marshall Adler:

So learning abou somebody like you has gone through this journey for 19 years.

Marshall Adler:

Its been a honor to hear it because you've done such wonderful work and it

Marshall Adler:

is a tribute to Ashley, which is what I want to do is attribute to Matt.

Marshall Adler:

And that's a wonderful roadmap that you've given me to try to follow and you know,

Marshall Adler:

you always want to keep on learning.

Marshall Adler:

You know, again, I won't get too much into sports, but like, as I mentioned

Marshall Adler:

before, sort of a tennis family, my son David was a very good tennis player

Marshall Adler:

and I'm playing tennis my entire life and we all know when you meet somebody

Marshall Adler:

and say, Oh yeah, I played tennis.

Marshall Adler:

Oh, that's great.

Marshall Adler:

And they'll say, you know, I'm really good, they're not.

Marshall Adler:

The really good tennis players that say I'm okay because.

Marshall Adler:

If you're really good, you play really good players.

Marshall Adler:

The only way you get good is playing really good players in the

Marshall Adler:

more really good players you play.

Marshall Adler:

You realize I'm not so good.

Marshall Adler:

I got to keep on getting better and learning in the same way.

Marshall Adler:

Like so many times in, in law, you know, I'm a 40 year lawyer now and

Marshall Adler:

I'm still trying to learn and I'll see some lawyers that think, boy, they're

Marshall Adler:

just the smartest person in the room.

Marshall Adler:

If they think that it's guaranteed, they're not because they're not learning.

Marshall Adler:

There's such a world out there that you have to keep on learning.

Marshall Adler:

And I, the real intelligent people that I've met in my life are the ones that

Marshall Adler:

don't put an emphasis on what they know.

Marshall Adler:

They put an emphasis on what they don't know and talking to you has

Marshall Adler:

given me great insight into what I don't know about this grief journey.

Marshall Adler:

And that's what I want to keep on learning.

Marshall Adler:

I know what I know.

Marshall Adler:

I don't need that reinforced.

Marshall Adler:

I need to know what I don't know.

Marshall Adler:

And you've been a godsend to give us insight into that because your journey

Marshall Adler:

has been almost 10 times longer than mine.

Marshall Adler:

You're 19 years out I'm two years out.

Marshall Adler:

And I got, I can't thank you enough for doing what you've done.

Marshall Adler:

And I worked.

Marshall Adler:

Steve, and I are trying to do what we can to help others as a tribute,

Marshall Adler:

you know, to, to Jordan, Matt.

Marshall Adler:

And you've really been a role model for us to follow on our path.

Marshall Adler:

And again, for that enough, I can't thank you enough.

Alan Peterson:

Well, thank you, I appreciate that.

Alan Peterson:

And, you know, I.

Alan Peterson:

You said something I believe it was, it was before we were on the air.

Alan Peterson:

And if I could close with this, I just think this is the most encouraging

Alan Peterson:

thing that I see out in the world.

Alan Peterson:

If, if ever grief is just filling the air of the world, it's now

Alan Peterson:

with all of the deaths to COVID and the thought process is about it.

Alan Peterson:

But I tell people this, this always gives me hope.

Alan Peterson:

I don't care.

Alan Peterson:

What city you go to.

Alan Peterson:

Any city I traveled to in anywhere, probably around the world, but you

Alan Peterson:

go to that city and you don't have to look very far to see that that city

Alan Peterson:

is a better place because somebody lived, somebody died and somebody who

Alan Peterson:

loves them continues to honor them.

Alan Peterson:

And that's why we have the new wing to the hospital.

Alan Peterson:

And it's why we have that set of ball fields.

Alan Peterson:

It's why there's a stop sign down on the street corner where the, or the little

Alan Peterson:

little child was run over and killed because the family fought city hall.

Alan Peterson:

It's why we have scholarships and we raised billions of

Alan Peterson:

dollars to help cure diseases.

Alan Peterson:

And we have organizations, uh, like mad and others and, and grief share and the

Alan Peterson:

compassionate friends, because people want to continue shining a light that the love

Alan Peterson:

inside of them has the desire to cast.

Alan Peterson:

So this world is a better way.

Alan Peterson:

And if you took collectively what we do in honor of our loved

Alan Peterson:

ones, there are no small ways.

Alan Peterson:

Whether it's at little random act of kindness, of opening a door for

Alan Peterson:

somebody or whatever it is we do.

Alan Peterson:

But the love, the power of that love that we continue to have for

Alan Peterson:

those we'd love who have died.

Alan Peterson:

And left us here to carry on that love it can light up the world

Alan Peterson:

and it does light up the world.

Alan Peterson:

And I have been honored today to share a conversation with the two of you.

Alan Peterson:

You are shining a light of love and you don't have to know it all.

Alan Peterson:

You don't have to know that much.

Alan Peterson:

You just have to know that, you know what you want to be a source for somebody

Alan Peterson:

who may not, who may think they're all alone and you don't have to grieve alone.

Alan Peterson:

Grieving is lonely.

Alan Peterson:

And this podcast, and what you are doing is a reminder to somebody

Alan Peterson:

who listens, but you know what?

Alan Peterson:

You are not alone.

Alan Peterson:

There are many of us going through this and together we can help each other

Alan Peterson:

to just keep doing the next thing.

Alan Peterson:

And if we do the next thing enough times, We create a life.

Alan Peterson:

We create a legacy.

Alan Peterson:

My job is to continue to build Ashley's legacy.

Alan Peterson:

Your job Marshall is to continue to build Matts and yours Steve

Alan Peterson:

is to continue to build Jordan.

Alan Peterson:

And I think all of our children are in pretty good hands.

Alan Peterson:

So thank you so much for having me.

Alan Peterson:

It's it's it's just, just been a wonderful experience, getting to

Alan Peterson:

know you guys better and to be a part of the work that you're doing.

Steve Smelski:

Thank you, Allen.

Steve Smelski:

Thank you for joining us today and thanks for coming on.

Marshall Adler:

Thank you so much.

Marshall Adler:

It was a wonderful experience.

Alan Peterson:

You're welcome.

Marshall Adler:

I like to personally thank Alan so much for his wonderful

Marshall Adler:

insights and words of wisdom today.

Marshall Adler:

That truly made a big impact on me.

Marshall Adler:

And I hope that the audience enjoyed it as much as I did, because I think he's

Marshall Adler:

a really interesting person caring with a lot of really insightful ideas as

Marshall Adler:

to how to deal with the grief process.

Marshall Adler:

So can, again, I cannot thank him enough for being a guest on our show today.

Steve Smelski:

I agree Marshall I've I've met Alan several times and listened

Steve Smelski:

to him speak and Alan, I just can't thank you enough for coming on today.

Steve Smelski:

Your stories are awesome.

Steve Smelski:

You hit on a lot of great topics that we hadn't covered before.

Steve Smelski:

So I would just like to say, thank you for coming on.

Steve Smelski:

And everybody, if you'd like to help Alan and support him, you can meet him on his

Steve Smelski:

website at https://angelsacrosstheusa.org, and you can help him sponsor the tour.

Steve Smelski:

If you've got an angel in your recent past, you can go ahead and

Steve Smelski:

put them on the van and they can travel around the country with Allen.

Steve Smelski:

Once again.

Steve Smelski:

Thank you for joining hope through grief.

Steve Smelski:

Remember if you have any questions for us, please go ahead and submit those

Steve Smelski:

through the website or on Facebook.

Steve Smelski:

And we'll go ahead and cover them in an upcoming issue of Hope Thru Grief.

Steve Smelski:

Thank you and have a good day, everybody.

Steve Smelski:

Thank you for joining us on Hope Thru Grief with your cohost

Steve Smelski:

Marshall Adler and Steve Smelski.

Marshall Adler:

We hope our episode today was helpful and informative

Marshall Adler:

.Since we are not medical or mental health professionals, we cannot

Marshall Adler:

and will not provide any medical, psychological, or mental health advice.

Marshall Adler:

Therefore, if you or anyone, you know, requires medical or mental health

Marshall Adler:

treatment, please contact a medical or mental health professional immediately.

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About the Podcast

Hope Thru Grief
Our mission is to create a community to bring hope through grief. Providing healing through our first hand experiences. Each day provides us an opportunity to continue to heal, as we get to meet and help others.
Have you recently lost a loved one? Are you struggling with grief? Don’t understand why the world has moved on and you are stuck? Wondering what will help? Have you lost all hope you will get back to any kind of “normal”?

Hope Thru Grief features husband and wife co-hosts Steve Smelski and Shelly Smelski to discuss their journeys of grief, after losing their son and other family members. They have changed their focus in life since their son’s death and have been helping others to find the support and answers they have been searching for.

Expect the unexpected. Honest and transparent discussions will reveal things hidden and overlooked which are quite common in coping with grief. Steve & Shelly will interview people from all walks of life, sharing their journeys of loss, as well as experts on recovery and finding hope in a world that has been changed forever.

If you are struggling with your grief, let’s talk together about ways to find healing in your journey and make it more meaningful and life-changing.

New Episodes every Thursday morning.

About your hosts

Randy Magray

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Randy has been producing podcasts for a decade as a creator, writer, host, and post-production specialist. He currently is the Podcast Producer for Duck Duck Productions in Orlando Florida and has worked extensively with the Smelski's on Hope Thru Grief and their Jordan Smelski Foundation for Amoeba Awareness.

Steve Smelski

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