Finishing Well With Mr. Howard Dayton

Steve Smelski: 00:00:04

Hello everyone.

Steve Smelski: 00:00:04

And welcome to today's episode of hope through grief.

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I'm one of your cohost, Steve Smelski, and I'm here with my good

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friend and cohost Marshall Adler.

Marshall Adler: 00:00:13

Hello, everybody.

Marshall Adler: 00:00:14

Hope you're doing well today.

Steve Smelski: 00:00:16

So for today's episode, we actually have a very special

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guest that's joined us today, Mr.

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Howard Dayton.

Steve Smelski: 00:00:25

Mr.

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Dayton was the co founder and chairman of Crown Financial

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Ministries from 2000 to 2007.

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And at the time they were the largest financial ministry in the world.

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During Mr.

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Dayton's time at CEO of the ministry, they taught more than 50 million

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people in 88 countries, God's way of handling money and operating a business.

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In 2009, Mr.

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Dayton founded a new ministry called Compass Finances God's way serving

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as CEO and full time volunteer.

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Mr.

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Davis recently stepped down as CEO and he's now serving as chairman of the board.

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He's hosted three different radio shows.

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He's the author of eight books in six small group studies, one Bible,

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three audio books, and two DVD series.

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I had the opportunity of meeting Mr.

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Dayton about six years ago, right after Jordan passed.

Steve Smelski: 00:01:18

And, um, he was very helpful to me.

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Welcome Howard.

Howard Dayton: 00:01:23

Thank you very much, Steve.

Howard Dayton: 00:01:24

Great to be with you and Marshall,

Steve Smelski: 00:01:26

So I thought maybe we would just start out a little bit and

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let you start with sharing your history.

Steve Smelski: 00:01:31

You have had a journey of grief, but maybe you could give us a little background

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and then we can get into that portion.

Howard Dayton: 00:01:39

Sure thing.

Howard Dayton: 00:01:40

I'm graduated from the Hotel School at Cornell spent two and a half years as a

Howard Dayton: 00:01:45

Naval officer, one year in Vietnam then returned to my home state of Florida.

Howard Dayton: 00:01:52

Started my business career in Orlando, uh, in 1971, two major things happen.

Howard Dayton: 00:01:59

I married and the second thing was that through a small group of guys, Uh, I was

Howard Dayton: 00:02:05

introduced to Christ as personal savior.

Howard Dayton: 00:02:09

One of those men became my business partner, a fellow named

Howard Dayton: 00:02:13

Jim Zenith challenged me to study of all things, the Bible to find

Howard Dayton: 00:02:19

out what it said about money.

Howard Dayton: 00:02:21

We discovered there were 2,350 versus dealing with money.

Howard Dayton: 00:02:26

Completely changed my life felt God was calling me to become involved in teaching

Howard Dayton: 00:02:32

others that subject, uh, we, uh, have had two major grief experiences in my life.

Howard Dayton: 00:02:40

First was a little boy named Andrew.

Howard Dayton: 00:02:43

We were in the process of adopting him.

Howard Dayton: 00:02:45

All three of our children are adopted as newborns, had him for a few months,

Howard Dayton: 00:02:52

took him to a neurologist because we figured something was wrong with him.

Howard Dayton: 00:02:56

And bottom line his mom had been on narcotics and he had only a

Howard Dayton: 00:03:00

fraction of his brain, just his STEM, uh, lived till he was 11.

Howard Dayton: 00:03:06

That was a, an emotionally challenging time for us as a family.

Howard Dayton: 00:03:11

Fortunately, the Lord brought, uh, the birth mom's mom and dad in our

Howard Dayton: 00:03:18

path didn't know him before then.

Howard Dayton: 00:03:20

They only lived three miles from us.

Howard Dayton: 00:03:22

They loved him.

Howard Dayton: 00:03:24

So they actually raised him.

Howard Dayton: 00:03:26

We were babysitters, which was a good thing because it had been so challenging.

Howard Dayton: 00:03:33

He was becoming hydrocephalic.

Howard Dayton: 00:03:35

We didn't realize that at all kind of operations.

Howard Dayton: 00:03:39

And my wife got a phone call for her one time and she didn't know she was in so we

Howard Dayton: 00:03:46

knew that just emotionally and physically.

Howard Dayton: 00:03:50

Bev was at the end of her rope and really we needed relief.

Howard Dayton: 00:03:53

And God brought that in the form of this wonderful couple.

Howard Dayton: 00:03:58

About, uh, let's see, probably eight years ago, eight years ago, we discovered that

Howard Dayton: 00:04:05

she had breast cancer, double mastectomy.

Howard Dayton: 00:04:09

We learned a year later that it had metastasized to her bones, which is

Howard Dayton: 00:04:14

a very, uh, painful type of cancer.

Howard Dayton: 00:04:19

I was her caregiver.

Howard Dayton: 00:04:21

And I would describe this then in our 26 years of marriage,

Howard Dayton: 00:04:25

it was the most difficult time, obviously, but in many ways it was

Howard Dayton: 00:04:29

the sweetest time in our marriage.

Howard Dayton: 00:04:32

And I had read a book called Trusting God and I come from a faith perspective

Howard Dayton: 00:04:38

and it really dealt with crises.

Howard Dayton: 00:04:42

You know, what's, what's God doing in the middle of a, of a crisis.

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And this was before we realized that it spread to her bones and Icame

Howard Dayton: 00:04:55

away from reading that book, realizing that God loves us like crazy.

Howard Dayton: 00:05:02

That, um, he's sovereign, he's in control of everything large and small

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and the planet and that because of his deep love for us, there will be times

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where we go through challenging times.

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And, uh, in the old Testament, there is a book of Job and poor, old Job got

Howard Dayton: 00:05:23

whacked, uh, beat up to beat the band.

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And was asking God why, and God never answered him, but he did reveal

Howard Dayton: 00:05:33

more of who he was, who God was.

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So the bottom line on the book was that when we are going through a difficult

Howard Dayton: 00:05:41

time, as hard as it is, it's for our ultimate benefit and for God's glory.

Howard Dayton: 00:05:48

So I never asked the question why during that, uh, that time and after she went

Howard Dayton: 00:05:55

home, As you well know Steve, cause we lived in the same neighborhood.

Howard Dayton: 00:06:00

I know I'd walk every morning, play Christian music.

Howard Dayton: 00:06:05

You know, cry my heart out and did that for about a year.

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And then, uh, through a mutual friend, the Lord brought Lynne into my life.

Howard Dayton: 00:06:15

She's an amazing person.

Howard Dayton: 00:06:18

Hadn't seen her in 30 years.

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We went through, I mentor one guy, one young man a year.

Howard Dayton: 00:06:25

Ask her, if she wanted me to mentor her, she said yes, because

Howard Dayton: 00:06:31

really I didn't want to, I mean, I remember her as a beautiful woman.

Howard Dayton: 00:06:35

But I didn't want, I wanted to make sure that I could finish well and listen

Howard Dayton: 00:06:41

to her heart, find out who she was.

Howard Dayton: 00:06:45

And then finally met her eight weeks later.

Howard Dayton: 00:06:50

And you and I talked about this a little bit earlier, Steve, I can remember.

Howard Dayton: 00:06:54

Because here I had this history of listening to music and crying

Howard Dayton: 00:06:58

my heart out every day on my walk.

Howard Dayton: 00:07:01

And, uh, there was a time after, uh, we had spent, uh, two times together where,

Howard Dayton: 00:07:08

you know, I cried my heart out, uh, as usual on my Walkman, it was different.

Howard Dayton: 00:07:13

And this time I felt the Lord was saying to my heart, your

Howard Dayton: 00:07:18

days are morning are over.

Howard Dayton: 00:07:20

I've got joy for you in the future.

Howard Dayton: 00:07:23

And, uh, bottom line, we were married, you know, 11 months ago and it's been just

Howard Dayton: 00:07:29

joyful every single day since that time.

Howard Dayton: 00:07:33

And I do think it is perfectly acceptable and legitimate from God's

Howard Dayton: 00:07:40

perspective for us to grieve and mourn.

Howard Dayton: 00:07:45

But there's a, there's a time for that.

Howard Dayton: 00:07:49

And then there's a time.

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To resume life, if you will.

Howard Dayton: 00:07:54

And I'm very thankful for the mourning experience.

Howard Dayton: 00:07:58

And I'm very, very thankful for the joy experience that,

Howard Dayton: 00:08:03

that we're, that we have now.

Howard Dayton: 00:08:05

And I would say this too, when, you know, for those of your audience who

Howard Dayton: 00:08:10

are caregivers, one of the most helpful things for me, was to have purpose.

Howard Dayton: 00:08:19

And my purpose was I, I was writing, um, a small group study

Howard Dayton: 00:08:24

called Charting your Legacy.

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And in that study, one of the things that really captured me was how

Howard Dayton: 00:08:32

important it is to finish our lives well, and it's, um, fella did a study.

Howard Dayton: 00:08:39

There are 2,930 individuals mentioned in, in the Bible.

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Of those, we only know enough of a hundred to know if they finished well

Howard Dayton: 00:08:50

or not .Of those hundred only 1/3 finished well, most didn't finish well

Howard Dayton: 00:08:56

in the latter part of their lives.

Howard Dayton: 00:08:58

And there's a decision-making theory ,if you will, that I think is right

Howard Dayton: 00:09:05

on the nose and that begin whatever you're working on with the end in mind.

Howard Dayton: 00:09:12

And for me, I realized that the end in mind for me, is when I do

Howard Dayton: 00:09:19

pass away and I finally am face to face with the Lord himself.

Howard Dayton: 00:09:26

Am I going to hear the words well done good and faithful servant.

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Or am I going to hear something else which will be a lot more painful.

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And so for me, I would say this, the, my, my life is characterized

Howard Dayton: 00:09:43

by a desire to finish well.

Howard Dayton: 00:09:47

And, um, I'm blessed beyond description to have Lynn Dayton in my life and

Howard Dayton: 00:09:55

as my dear wife and partner in life.

Howard Dayton: 00:10:00

And that's one of the focuses of our life and encouraging one another to

Howard Dayton: 00:10:06

do those things who allow us to finish well, all, all from God's point of view.

Howard Dayton: 00:10:14

But that's the story,

Marshall Adler: 00:10:16

Howard that's interesting.

Marshall Adler: 00:10:17

Let me ask you a question, our listeners know this, but I want

Marshall Adler: 00:10:21

to just give some information.

Marshall Adler: 00:10:23

We mentioned before the show started that my son, Matt, it was 32 years

Marshall Adler: 00:10:27

old, passed away on July 22nd, 2018.

Howard Dayton: 00:10:30

Yes

Marshall Adler: 00:10:31

And when we were at the funeral home, picking out his headstone,

Marshall Adler: 00:10:36

I got the call that my mother passed away.

Howard Dayton: 00:10:39

Wow

Marshall Adler: 00:10:40

So my mother and my son passed away within 24 hours.

Howard Dayton: 00:10:44

Wow.

Marshall Adler: 00:10:45

And we had to go to the grave site.

Marshall Adler: 00:10:49

We just bought the plot for Matt, which was next to my father.

Marshall Adler: 00:10:52

My father passed away in 2012.

Marshall Adler: 00:10:55

He lived to 91.

Marshall Adler: 00:10:56

He had Alzheimer's, which was a different grief journey.

Marshall Adler: 00:11:01

But, my mother and my son passing away within 24 hours from a grief standpoint

Marshall Adler: 00:11:09

was so different because my mother was 93.

Marshall Adler: 00:11:13

My son was 32.

Marshall Adler: 00:11:15

My mother was in hospice completely expected that she was going to pass away.

Marshall Adler: 00:11:19

In fact, Matt was home from San Diego.

Marshall Adler: 00:11:22

And we had a wonderful time within saying goodbye to my mother, we didn't

Marshall Adler: 00:11:26

know, we were saying goodbye to him.

Marshall Adler: 00:11:27

Cause it was the last time we ever saw him.

Marshall Adler: 00:11:28

He flew back to San Diego, we had a work and then we were waiting for him to

Marshall Adler: 00:11:33

come back for the funeral of my mother.

Marshall Adler: 00:11:36

And he never made it.

Marshall Adler: 00:11:37

He died two days before she did.

Howard Dayton: 00:11:38

Wow.

Marshall Adler: 00:11:39

So the grief journey that I've been on, I'm interested

Marshall Adler: 00:11:45

in because I will tell you.

Marshall Adler: 00:11:47

The loss of a child, which you've also experienced is like, for me,

Marshall Adler: 00:11:52

it was just completely different than the loss of a mother.

Howard Dayton: 00:11:55

Yes

Marshall Adler: 00:11:56

And I will tell you it's been over two years and my mother

Marshall Adler: 00:11:59

was the greatest mother in the world.

Marshall Adler: 00:12:03

Like, I'll just tell you like I'm Jewish and my mother was

Marshall Adler: 00:12:06

not only a Jewish mother.

Marshall Adler: 00:12:08

She was a.

Marshall Adler: 00:12:09

Nurse at Bellevue Hospital in New York City, which one of the

Marshall Adler: 00:12:12

great hospitals in the world.

Marshall Adler: 00:12:13

So I tell everybody well, before the pandemic.

Marshall Adler: 00:12:17

I was told every day in my life to wash my hands because my mother, but my entire

Marshall Adler: 00:12:22

life I've been told to wash my hand well before the pandemic so that my mother was

Marshall Adler: 00:12:27

not just a Jewish mother, she was a nurse.

Marshall Adler: 00:12:29

So she was always like that.

Marshall Adler: 00:12:30

And she was very close with Matt.

Marshall Adler: 00:12:33

But then what also happened is my best friend of 50 years from Buffalo, New York.

Marshall Adler: 00:12:38

So I know you went to Cornell very close to Cornell also, who

Marshall Adler: 00:12:41

was very close with my son, Matt, and very close with my parents.

Marshall Adler: 00:12:45

I knew him since I was 12 years old.

Marshall Adler: 00:12:47

He passed away.

Marshall Adler: 00:12:48

So I had my son, my mother, and my best friend of 50 years all pass away.

Marshall Adler: 00:12:55

And what we did is the Jewish religion on the one year anniversary

Marshall Adler: 00:13:00

of somebody's passing, you do, what's called a Yard Side Candle.

Marshall Adler: 00:13:05

It's a Memorial candle that you light and it goes for 24 hours in the Jewish

Marshall Adler: 00:13:10

religion that the day starts at sundown.

Howard Dayton: 00:13:12

Yes

Marshall Adler: 00:13:12

The day before we went to Israel and we were at the beach

Marshall Adler: 00:13:20

on the Mediterranean Sea and Tel-Aviv widen this Yard Side Candle for Matt,

Marshall Adler: 00:13:25

which was beautiful, but it was also, we couldn't believe it that we were

Marshall Adler: 00:13:30

lighting this for our son and a day or two before we were in Jerusalem at

Marshall Adler: 00:13:35

The Wailing Wall, the Western Wall.

Marshall Adler: 00:13:38

And I put prayer notes for my father, my mother, my son, Matt,

Marshall Adler: 00:13:46

and my friend, Ted from Buffalo.

Marshall Adler: 00:13:48

And I put them all together because the four of them loved each other.

Marshall Adler: 00:13:53

And putting that into the, The Wailing Wall just sort of gave me some contentment

Marshall Adler: 00:14:02

in the sense that I knew that people before me for thousands of years had come

Marshall Adler: 00:14:10

here to grieve people that they loved.

Marshall Adler: 00:14:13

And my father of 91 years, my mother is 93 years.

Marshall Adler: 00:14:18

My friend Ted lived 62 years.

Marshall Adler: 00:14:20

My son Matt lived 32 years.

Marshall Adler: 00:14:23

So we have a great, you know, a gradation there.

Marshall Adler: 00:14:25

But looking at this wall, going back thousands years, you

Marshall Adler: 00:14:30

realize it's all a short time.

Marshall Adler: 00:14:32

No matter how long any of us live...

Howard Dayton: 00:14:34

that's right.

Marshall Adler: 00:14:35

Comparatively looks long my father and my mother, but

Marshall Adler: 00:14:39

in the millenniums that people go to the Western Wall is a short time.

Marshall Adler: 00:14:43

So my question to you is how has your journey been different with the loss

Marshall Adler: 00:14:47

of a child and the loss of a wife?

Marshall Adler: 00:14:50

Because for me, I I've had three different losses within a short period of time,

Marshall Adler: 00:14:56

a son, a mother, and a best friend.

Marshall Adler: 00:14:59

And they've all been different, but I just know my grief journey would have

Marshall Adler: 00:15:03

been so different for each one of them.

Marshall Adler: 00:15:06

If they didn't come in such short duration right next to each other.

Marshall Adler: 00:15:11

And it's been it's been difficult for me to grieve properly for each

Marshall Adler: 00:15:14

one of those people that I loved.

Howard Dayton: 00:15:16

Yeah.

Howard Dayton: 00:15:17

I think with, uh, Andrew, uh, the little boy who, um, Really just

Howard Dayton: 00:15:22

had the fraction of his brain.

Howard Dayton: 00:15:25

Course we grieved for him when he passed away, but it was different

Howard Dayton: 00:15:32

in that, you know, he, he couldn't communicate with us and, you know, we,

Howard Dayton: 00:15:37

we could love him, touch him I mean, uh, do everything we could to make

Howard Dayton: 00:15:44

his life as comfortable as possible.

Howard Dayton: 00:15:49

But it was different, you know.

Howard Dayton: 00:15:51

Obviously with your wife, you have a deeper relationship, you

Howard Dayton: 00:15:54

communicate with each other.

Howard Dayton: 00:15:55

You've, you know, 46 years you've gone through wars and rumors

Howard Dayton: 00:15:59

of wars together, so to speak.

Howard Dayton: 00:16:02

And, uh, so that was, you know, much, much different, uh, in that respect.

Howard Dayton: 00:16:08

I think it's when, when it's your mate going back to Adam and Eve,

Howard Dayton: 00:16:12

the two become one, that's a special relationship that can't be replaced.

Howard Dayton: 00:16:18

By any other relationship.

Howard Dayton: 00:16:20

And for me, you know, given my faith, I'm completely convinced that I'm going to see

Howard Dayton: 00:16:26

her again, face to face and because she had a close relationship where the Lord

Howard Dayton: 00:16:33

is as well as, as my relationship with the Lord and same true with my, my second

Howard Dayton: 00:16:40

wife, she has a very intimate relationship where the Lord and the faith element.

Howard Dayton: 00:16:47

I think, which I know was huge.

Howard Dayton: 00:16:50

At least for me in dealing with those losses, my mom was 95 when she went home,

Howard Dayton: 00:16:58

my dad was 81, with a heart attack and I admire and, and still miss them for sure.

Howard Dayton: 00:17:06

But I like the idea of The Wailing Wall and the history Marshall, because there's

Howard Dayton: 00:17:13

no substitute for proper perspective.

Howard Dayton: 00:17:16

And realizing that life is short, eternity is long and what we do during

Howard Dayton: 00:17:22

this short lifetime of ours can matter forever through the people that we touch.

Marshall Adler: 00:17:30

It's interesting because I was surprised that I did get a sense

Marshall Adler: 00:17:34

of contentment putting those prayer notes into The Wailing Wall, because I just

Marshall Adler: 00:17:41

realized that 2000 years in the future, somebody could have lost a son and put

Marshall Adler: 00:17:50

the print out for them, the same place I'm putting print out for, for Matt.

Marshall Adler: 00:17:55

And I will be long gone and forgotten, but it's all part of the

Marshall Adler: 00:18:00

continuum of the human experience.

Marshall Adler: 00:18:03

And what I looked at was my mother, my father, my son met my friend Ted.

Marshall Adler: 00:18:11

We're all for the funniest people you'd ever want to meet, they all

Marshall Adler: 00:18:17

had wonderful sense of humor and they did nothing but live lives

Marshall Adler: 00:18:23

of purpose, kindness, and humor.

Marshall Adler: 00:18:31

And I really felt that.

Marshall Adler: 00:18:34

They would all say you realize that everybody comes to this Wailing Wall.

Marshall Adler: 00:18:37

They're wailing because they're grieving and we're all going to be here sometime

Marshall Adler: 00:18:42

or the other along the human journey.

Marshall Adler: 00:18:46

So make the most of the time you're actually on this

Marshall Adler: 00:18:49

planet, whatever that time is.

Howard Dayton: 00:18:52

That's right

Marshall Adler: 00:18:54

And that gave me the sense of peace.

Howard Dayton: 00:18:58

Yeah.

Howard Dayton: 00:18:58

I, I don't think we can, um, overestimate how important it is

Howard Dayton: 00:19:03

to have perspective making our life count having a clear purpose.

Howard Dayton: 00:19:11

I've struggled with what is my purpose from time to time in my life, not,

Howard Dayton: 00:19:17

not the last 45 years, but from time to time as a younger person.

Howard Dayton: 00:19:22

And I would just encourage folks, to spend time and pray and ask for

Howard Dayton: 00:19:29

clarity on what your purpose is.

Howard Dayton: 00:19:31

It may be clear if you're a, if you're a mom with children and you're in the

Howard Dayton: 00:19:37

middle of raising them, you've got pretty clear purpose, but what is it in the long

Howard Dayton: 00:19:42

haul that the Lord is calling you to do?

Marshall Adler: 00:19:45

You mentioned the, the why question?

Marshall Adler: 00:19:48

I know Steve and I have talked about that many times, both on air and off air.

Marshall Adler: 00:19:57

And I'll just tell you a quick story, then I'll turn over to Steve for a second.

Marshall Adler: 00:20:01

So I don't want to dominate your time here, but my, my mother I've

Marshall Adler: 00:20:06

told the story before my mother, after she lost her second child.

Marshall Adler: 00:20:13

She asked my father's father.

Marshall Adler: 00:20:15

The why question and what happened is all my grandparents were immigrants and

Marshall Adler: 00:20:21

my father's father, he came from what was then the Austrian Hungarian empire.

Marshall Adler: 00:20:28

So you never knew exactly where it was because the borders kept on changing, but

Marshall Adler: 00:20:34

he told my mother something that I never really understood till after Matt passed.

Marshall Adler: 00:20:42

And what he said is that losing two children was a tragedy,

Marshall Adler: 00:20:52

but it was your tragedy.

Marshall Adler: 00:20:54

It would be no more or less a tragedy.

Marshall Adler: 00:20:56

If the next door neighbor had lost two children, it wouldn't

Marshall Adler: 00:21:00

be your traged but a tragedy?

Marshall Adler: 00:21:03

And what my grandfather told my mother was that.

Marshall Adler: 00:21:08

What makes you think that you are going to be so special that you're going to be

Marshall Adler: 00:21:12

exempt from grief in this journey of life?

Marshall Adler: 00:21:16

He goes, you're not, nobody is.

Marshall Adler: 00:21:18

And my mother grieved the loss of those two children the day she died

Marshall Adler: 00:21:24

because I'm living on her death bed.

Marshall Adler: 00:21:25

She was telling me about them, but it actually helped her hearing

Marshall Adler: 00:21:31

my grandfather say those words.

Marshall Adler: 00:21:32

Cause I think it's sort of similar to what you're saying.

Marshall Adler: 00:21:34

She knew she had to get into the game of life, be the best person she could be.

Marshall Adler: 00:21:41

And then my parents always told me to live is for the living, do the best

Marshall Adler: 00:21:45

you can do here on this planet for as long as you can, which it sounds

Marshall Adler: 00:21:49

exactly the way you've led you've lived your life is what you've done.

Marshall Adler: 00:21:52

And my parents in their own way, I think took my grandfather's statements

Marshall Adler: 00:21:58

that at first seemed sort of, um, harsh to tell somebody that, but my mother

Marshall Adler: 00:22:06

said it was the best thing for her to hear because it sort of got her back

Marshall Adler: 00:22:10

into realizing I've got to live my life as a tribute to my lost, loved ones.

Marshall Adler: 00:22:17

And Steven I've talked about that all the time.

Marshall Adler: 00:22:19

That's why I'm doing this show to try to continue the good work that my son Matt

Marshall Adler: 00:22:23

couldn't do anymore cause he's not here.

Marshall Adler: 00:22:25

And I feel like it's my obligation to live the rest of my life for as long as

Marshall Adler: 00:22:29

I'm on this planet is a tribute to him.

Marshall Adler: 00:22:31

And it sounds like you've done that absolutely with your life.

Marshall Adler: 00:22:34

And I think that's a real important lesson for all of us because as we all

Marshall Adler: 00:22:39

know either you're going to live and the people that you love are going to

Marshall Adler: 00:22:45

pass and you're going to grieve them or else you're going to pass and people

Marshall Adler: 00:22:48

you love are going to grieve you.

Marshall Adler: 00:22:51

So grief is just part of the human experience.

Howard Dayton: 00:22:54

Well said,

Steve Smelski: 00:22:55

Howard, I wanted to let everybody know how much

Steve Smelski: 00:22:57

you helped me after Jordan passed.

Steve Smelski: 00:23:01

I used to tell people that I had this friend that we talked, but

Steve Smelski: 00:23:05

we always taught before breakfast.

Steve Smelski: 00:23:06

And they're like, what?

Steve Smelski: 00:23:08

It's like Howard would walk around the Lake here in our development

Steve Smelski: 00:23:11

and I would run and ruin.

Steve Smelski: 00:23:13

We met each other.

Steve Smelski: 00:23:13

We'd walk together and talk for quite a while.

Steve Smelski: 00:23:16

And you really helped me at the beginning.

Steve Smelski: 00:23:18

And I can't thank you enough for that.

Steve Smelski: 00:23:23

I also got to walk with you as you were going through your journey.

Steve Smelski: 00:23:29

Do you think anybody ever said anything to you that really

Steve Smelski: 00:23:32

helped you with that journey?

Steve Smelski: 00:23:34

Or is there anything you can say or heard that that really helped?

Howard Dayton: 00:23:41

My best friend is, um, an attorney Marshall.

Howard Dayton: 00:23:45

His name is Tim Mainer and I'll never forget Tim and I, when I really learned

Howard Dayton: 00:23:53

what, uh, the challenges that uh, we were facing with Andrew and I walked down

Howard Dayton: 00:24:01

Park Avenue in Winter Park one evening.

Howard Dayton: 00:24:05

And we still talk about that time.

Howard Dayton: 00:24:08

And I think having a close friend that cares about you, that, you know,

Howard Dayton: 00:24:18

you know, you just know he, he or she loves you, is really helpful.

Howard Dayton: 00:24:26

They don't have to say some something brilliant that solves

Howard Dayton: 00:24:30

the problem, but just for them to be there during that time.

Howard Dayton: 00:24:37

And, um, you know, my friend, Tim and I talked or communicated almost every

Howard Dayton: 00:24:44

day for the past, probably 40 years.

Howard Dayton: 00:24:48

And, um, uh, you know, that's a priceless friendship that, we've both gone

Howard Dayton: 00:24:54

through good times and challenging times heartache, and it just helps a lot to have

Howard Dayton: 00:25:02

that kind of a friend that in your life.

Howard Dayton: 00:25:05

And, and, uh, I do anything I could to nurture that or encourage everybody

Howard Dayton: 00:25:12

to nurture that kind of a friendship.

Howard Dayton: 00:25:16

And of course your spouse is absolutely key.

Howard Dayton: 00:25:20

I mean, you've, you've lived through that, Steve I'm sure Marshall has

Howard Dayton: 00:25:24

to having a, you know, a spouse that you're going through it together.

Howard Dayton: 00:25:31

You can support and encourage one another, uh, even in the midst of the grief

Howard Dayton: 00:25:36

journey, you know, I don't believe we're, we've been made to be alone and to have

Howard Dayton: 00:25:44

those people in your life that care for you, that you care for is really a gift.

Howard Dayton: 00:25:51

It's just a, it's just a gift.

Steve Smelski: 00:25:54

I couldn't agree with you more.

Steve Smelski: 00:25:56

Yeah.

Steve Smelski: 00:25:57

I was thinking about some of our discussions and the part I remember

Steve Smelski: 00:26:01

was you were actually interested in what was going on with me.

Steve Smelski: 00:26:04

It wasn't so much what you said, just that you took the time.

Steve Smelski: 00:26:09

And for that I was appreciative and it helped a lot.

Howard Dayton: 00:26:14

It was a dear time for me to be with you, for sure, miss it.

Steve Smelski: 00:26:19

So do I.

Steve Smelski: 00:26:21

You had mentioned you started grieving ahead of time with above, and that was

Steve Smelski: 00:26:28

actually a fairly long journey compared to what Marshall and I have experienced.

Steve Smelski: 00:26:33

Could you tell us a little bit about from beginning?

Steve Smelski: 00:26:36

Cause at one point it's like, it's hard to actually hear

Steve Smelski: 00:26:42

what the diagnosis is, right?

Steve Smelski: 00:26:45

But then you, you have no idea what the journey is.

Howard Dayton: 00:26:48

No it's um, and you have ups and downs, times of encouragement,

Howard Dayton: 00:26:54

times of discouragement along the journey.

Howard Dayton: 00:26:58

Uh, we were blessed to have a great oncologist who was

Howard Dayton: 00:27:04

both tender and very direct.

Howard Dayton: 00:27:10

So there was no, and he took us as much of the mystery out of where we were headed

Howard Dayton: 00:27:17

as possible, but we really appreciated that because, you know, we clearly a

Howard Dayton: 00:27:22

sense that, uh, Dr about cared for us.

Howard Dayton: 00:27:26

So that really was, um, again, gift you have times of hope, then you have

Howard Dayton: 00:27:32

times where those hopes are dashed.

Howard Dayton: 00:27:35

So it's not, it's certainly not a linear experience.

Howard Dayton: 00:27:39

But, you know, I knew from the research I'd done that, you know,

Howard Dayton: 00:27:44

life expectancy was probably five years for bone cancer and that really

Howard Dayton: 00:27:50

there wasn't a quote unquote cure.

Howard Dayton: 00:27:53

And our oncologist was so kind in that he was very aware, of course he was more

Howard Dayton: 00:27:59

than aware that we were aware of that, but he, he focused on pain management,

Howard Dayton: 00:28:05

which we were very very grateful for.

Howard Dayton: 00:28:10

And, um, as I said, for us as a couple, it was by far the sweetest

Howard Dayton: 00:28:15

time because you you're, you're pretty undistracted, uh, when you're, uh,

Howard Dayton: 00:28:21

going through the middle of that.

Howard Dayton: 00:28:23

And, um, you just get to know each other at an entirely different level,

Howard Dayton: 00:28:30

uh, depth, uh, as you did before.

Steve Smelski: 00:28:35

So it's kind of the journey together, even though....

Howard Dayton: 00:28:39

The journey together and it's a , um, retrospect, I'm

Howard Dayton: 00:28:45

thankful for the journey because I'm definitely, I tell my wife, my new wife,

Howard Dayton: 00:28:51

Lynn she's getting the improved model.

Howard Dayton: 00:28:55

You know, she's definitely getting a better, better husband than

Howard Dayton: 00:29:01

you know, I was 30 years ago.

Howard Dayton: 00:29:05

No.

Howard Dayton: 00:29:06

Then we've laughed about that, you know, it's and, and it's, it's interesting.

Howard Dayton: 00:29:10

It's just not a, you know, a health challenge or death where you grief but

Howard Dayton: 00:29:17

there are a lot of things we grieve over, whether it's the death of a marriage

Howard Dayton: 00:29:21

through divorce, or, I mean, there are a lot of things that are out there.

Howard Dayton: 00:29:26

And one thing I would say it's, um, uh, for a lot of people some gifted

Howard Dayton: 00:29:35

counselor is really a huge asset.

Howard Dayton: 00:29:41

Lynn has a very gifted counselor who is, just dynamite and, uh, that can be

Howard Dayton: 00:29:49

very helpful in the grieving process.

Steve Smelski: 00:29:53

Yeah.

Steve Smelski: 00:29:53

That's a great point.

Steve Smelski: 00:29:55

So as we were talking and I think I'm most interested in your topic of

Steve Smelski: 00:30:03

finishing well and what that means to you.

Steve Smelski: 00:30:06

There's actually multiple thoughts behind that right?

Steve Smelski: 00:30:10

It's just not because it covers a lot of different things.

Steve Smelski: 00:30:14

But as an individual, going through grief, can our focus on that certainly

Steve Smelski: 00:30:20

help us through the grief journey as well as define what we do and what would

Steve Smelski: 00:30:24

become after, because Marshall and I have agreed were when you were talking,

Steve Smelski: 00:30:28

you got the better version of Howard.

Steve Smelski: 00:30:30

We're not the same either.

Howard Dayton: 00:30:34

Yeah, I really believe that grieving as Marshall said so

Howard Dayton: 00:30:41

eloquently as part of the human experience and difficult times, challenging times

Howard Dayton: 00:30:49

,grieving times really are more than allowed by the Lord to shape us into

Howard Dayton: 00:30:58

the people that he wants us to be, to shape us into people who can relate to

Howard Dayton: 00:31:05

others, you know, in a much deeper level, because we've been there and done that.

Howard Dayton: 00:31:11

And as painful as the hard times are, if we put on a hat, let's put

Howard Dayton: 00:31:19

on the servant hat, you know, how can I serve the people around me?

Howard Dayton: 00:31:23

I'm much better at doing that than I ever was before have, um, you know,

Howard Dayton: 00:31:30

much closer relationship with the Lord because of those experiences.

Howard Dayton: 00:31:36

And I really wouldn't trade that for anything.

Steve Smelski: 00:31:39

Thank you for sharing that.

Steve Smelski: 00:31:42

I was surprised to find out as we started through our journey of grief and we

Steve Smelski: 00:31:46

found grief share, we did counseling.

Steve Smelski: 00:31:49

I was actually very surprised at how much it helps to help others.

Steve Smelski: 00:31:55

It helps you as much as what they receive.

Steve Smelski: 00:31:59

Yet, you've spent the last 40 or 50 years doing that right?

Howard Dayton: 00:32:04

Well, that's why I got a smile on my face.

Howard Dayton: 00:32:06

You know, it's been a joy.

Howard Dayton: 00:32:10

I've loved doing it.

Howard Dayton: 00:32:13

You know, God put us in a financial position where haven't had to have

Howard Dayton: 00:32:17

a salary or any book royalties or anything like that since 85.

Howard Dayton: 00:32:22

It's just been priceless joy to be called to do this.

Howard Dayton: 00:32:30

And I'm not saying everybody should be in a financial position where

Howard Dayton: 00:32:34

they're free to do it, but for us it's, it's just been a blessing.

Steve Smelski: 00:32:41

Do you remember any of the people that you've met during

Steve Smelski: 00:32:44

that journey that stand out to you?

Howard Dayton: 00:32:47

A lot of them, yeah.

Howard Dayton: 00:32:49

I mean, its you know, during the coronavirus, they, one of the things

Howard Dayton: 00:32:54

I've encouraged people to do, I did have God visited me in 1977.

Howard Dayton: 00:33:01

I know it's a little spooky to say that, but I found myself prostrate

Howard Dayton: 00:33:06

on the kitchen floor, crying my heart out at Thanksgiving for

Howard Dayton: 00:33:09

Christ died for me on the cross.

Howard Dayton: 00:33:12

And he showed me that, uh, during my lifetime, we would have a

Howard Dayton: 00:33:15

very, very difficult financial situation in our country.

Howard Dayton: 00:33:21

Didn't show me when didn't show me how it manifests itself, but that

Howard Dayton: 00:33:25

motivated me every single day.

Howard Dayton: 00:33:27

Since that time to try to teach as many people as possible, the biblical, point

Howard Dayton: 00:33:36

of view of our resources or our stuff.

Howard Dayton: 00:33:42

And in the hopes that they would apply the principles of generosity,

Howard Dayton: 00:33:47

of getting completely out of debt, of being consistent on the saving

Howard Dayton: 00:33:51

side to their lives, so that when that occurred, they and their

Howard Dayton: 00:33:59

family would be financially stable.

Howard Dayton: 00:34:03

And hopefully they'd have enough to help those who weren't in a financially stable

Howard Dayton: 00:34:10

place .And so I've had a lot of calls over the last few months they had....

Howard Dayton: 00:34:15

Is this it?

Steve Smelski: 00:34:16

That was going thorugh of mind of is this is?

Howard Dayton: 00:34:21

That's right and I all I can say is the Lord hasn't visited me.

Howard Dayton: 00:34:26

Like he did the first time to affirm that this is it.

Howard Dayton: 00:34:32

But it is interesting to see that it happened so quickly and globally, and

Howard Dayton: 00:34:39

um, has definitely hurt a lot of people financially no question about it.

Howard Dayton: 00:34:45

So, you know, I'm just continuing to encourage as many people as I can to apply

Howard Dayton: 00:34:52

these principles to your financial life.

Marshall Adler: 00:34:56

Howard, it's interesting because my father was born 1921.

Marshall Adler: 00:35:03

So he was a child of the depression.

Marshall Adler: 00:35:09

He was bar mitzvah'd in 1934, which if, you know, history was a year after

Marshall Adler: 00:35:14

Hitler came to power in Germany and he always told me to live your life like

Marshall Adler: 00:35:29

each day is going to be your last, because one day you will be right.

Marshall Adler: 00:35:33

It will be, you don't know when and he lived till 91 and he made the most of his

Marshall Adler: 00:35:43

life because he sort of sensed that way.

Marshall Adler: 00:35:47

Like he, at the end of his life, he had Alzheimer's where he didn't remember

Marshall Adler: 00:35:54

what he had for breakfast, but you remembered everything about World War

Marshall Adler: 00:35:58

II so clearly, cause I was in short term memory that he lost and he was a first

Marshall Adler: 00:36:05

Lieutenant in the Army Air Corps before the air force became into existence.

Marshall Adler: 00:36:10

So he was a first Lieutenant in the army and he was trained as a navigator with a

Marshall Adler: 00:36:14

crew and they were going to go to England to fight the Nazis in Europe and with the

Marshall Adler: 00:36:20

same crew of a B24 there's 10 guys on the B24, 4 officers and 6 enlisted men.

Marshall Adler: 00:36:27

And he knew all of them closed with them.

Marshall Adler: 00:36:28

And the day before they were going to leave for England, they pulled them

Marshall Adler: 00:36:32

and they said, His name was Merwin.

Marshall Adler: 00:36:34

MERWIN.

Marshall Adler: 00:36:35

The most unusual name you've ever heard in your life.

Marshall Adler: 00:36:38

They said, Merwin, you're not going to Europe to fight the Nazis.

Marshall Adler: 00:36:42

We're going to send you to the Pacific, to fight the Japanese.

Marshall Adler: 00:36:46

And you're not going to be a navigator.

Marshall Adler: 00:36:47

We're gonna make you a radar bombardier and send you to Carlsbad, New Mexico

Marshall Adler: 00:36:52

for radar Bombardier training.

Marshall Adler: 00:36:53

And there's something called the Norton bomb site, which is like the

Marshall Adler: 00:36:56

first computer that my dad worked on.

Marshall Adler: 00:36:59

So, he goes, okay and he was very close with all those mates that

Marshall Adler: 00:37:05

he was in basic training with.

Marshall Adler: 00:37:07

So they all went to England to fight the Nazis on a transport.

Marshall Adler: 00:37:12

The transport crashed in England and they all died.

Marshall Adler: 00:37:17

If he wasn't pulled that day before I wouldn't be here because he had he'd

Marshall Adler: 00:37:21

have been dead and he did 51 missions.

Marshall Adler: 00:37:26

They're supposed to send you home after 25

Marshall Adler: 00:37:28

and they kept on hopping the missions.

Marshall Adler: 00:37:29

He did 51 missions and he never had a scratch on him.

Marshall Adler: 00:37:34

And he just reached the point where I look at his life and his philosophy

Marshall Adler: 00:37:42

was the happiest guy I've ever seen.

Marshall Adler: 00:37:45

And it really sort of resonates with me more after losing Matt, because

Marshall Adler: 00:37:47

he would, he would tell me things like there's things in life that

Marshall Adler: 00:37:52

you can control and since you can control them, don't worry about it.

Marshall Adler: 00:37:59

And there's other things in life that you cannot control.

Marshall Adler: 00:38:03

And since you can not control those, don't worry about it.

Marshall Adler: 00:38:07

That was his philosophy.

Marshall Adler: 00:38:08

So what you're saying is interesting, cause it seems like obviously

Marshall Adler: 00:38:11

the financial decisions you make are your decision and you do have

Marshall Adler: 00:38:15

some control over those decisions.

Marshall Adler: 00:38:19

So don't worry about those, but then there's other things like a worldwide

Marshall Adler: 00:38:23

pandemic that you can't control.

Marshall Adler: 00:38:26

And it's interesting when you said that, because it just made me think about what

Marshall Adler: 00:38:29

my father says a little bit different form, but I see a synergy between what

Marshall Adler: 00:38:33

you were saying, what my dad told me.

Howard Dayton: 00:38:35

Yeah.

Howard Dayton: 00:38:36

I think we also Marshall have to be careful of what we put in our brains.

Howard Dayton: 00:38:43

And for me that means not watching the news very often when it comes

Howard Dayton: 00:38:50

to the pandemic because it's so, negative and, um, you know, who

Howard Dayton: 00:38:56

knows what's going to happen.

Howard Dayton: 00:38:58

I mean, it's be a rare person who knows how this is going to play

Howard Dayton: 00:39:03

out, but that shouldn't stop me from still focusing on finishing well and

Howard Dayton: 00:39:10

fulfilling the purpose that's in my life.

Howard Dayton: 00:39:13

I know a lot of people have suffered a lot through this pandemic.

Howard Dayton: 00:39:19

Uh, not only with their health, but they were their finances, relationships.

Howard Dayton: 00:39:24

I mean, you name it.

Howard Dayton: 00:39:25

You know, all we can do is encourage as many people as you can.

Howard Dayton: 00:39:30

And just be careful what you listen to, I think is, is an important piece

Howard Dayton: 00:39:36

of the puzzle and be careful who you listen to when you're in a grief mode.

Howard Dayton: 00:39:44

That's really important.

Marshall Adler: 00:39:46

I did watch the news yesterday, so I have to listen and they

Marshall Adler: 00:39:50

had a round table there, the governor in town, and I knew this was going to happen,

Marshall Adler: 00:39:58

but they mentioned that again, people, you know, be listening throughout the world.

Marshall Adler: 00:40:03

So we're in Central Florida, Orlando and I live in Seminole

Marshall Adler: 00:40:07

County, just North of Orlando.

Marshall Adler: 00:40:10

And they said that this year, since the pandemic hit and obviously early

Marshall Adler: 00:40:17

February timeframe in Seminole County, the suicide rate has increased by

Marshall Adler: 00:40:26

a third over what it was last year before the pandemic, and as a suicide

Marshall Adler: 00:40:34

survivor, who I lost my son to suicide.

Marshall Adler: 00:40:38

t's one of those things that are probably not listening to my father, because it

Marshall Adler: 00:40:43

does worry me because obviously I can't control it when, if I say don't worry

Marshall Adler: 00:40:48

about it, but yet I would love to be able to say something to somebody to try to

Marshall Adler: 00:40:53

help, to get that horrific fact changed.

Marshall Adler: 00:40:59

And it's one of those situations where you, I think you realize what you're

Marshall Adler: 00:41:05

saying, finishing well is, we got to keep on doing the best we can for as long as

Marshall Adler: 00:41:10

we're here, because we don't know who's going to listen to this podcast today.

Marshall Adler: 00:41:15

And if there's the, if there's one person that gets something that helps them with

Marshall Adler: 00:41:22

their life going forward, I think the three of us would be very happy that

Marshall Adler: 00:41:27

we did a good deed with this podcast.

Marshall Adler: 00:41:30

And I just went up when I heard that statistic.

Marshall Adler: 00:41:37

It just sort of made me realize, I think what you said is true about not

Marshall Adler: 00:41:42

knowing what's going to happen, because I think the longterm effects of the

Marshall Adler: 00:41:50

pandemic are yet to be determined, not only from a medical standpoint, but

Marshall Adler: 00:41:54

also as you know, financial, but also from a mental health standpoint, I think

Marshall Adler: 00:41:58

so many people are going to have PTSD.

Marshall Adler: 00:42:01

So many of these first responders, medical people that have just seen

Marshall Adler: 00:42:06

such horrific carnage and suffering and death, and they don't have time to

Marshall Adler: 00:42:11

grieve because they have to respond.

Marshall Adler: 00:42:14

And I think there's going to be a tidal wave of grief ahead of us as a society.

Marshall Adler: 00:42:21

And I'm interested in, what would you think about that?

Howard Dayton: 00:42:24

Yeah, I mean, I, in total agreement with you that we don't know the

Howard Dayton: 00:42:28

fallout that mentioned earlier, we were made to have community with one another.

Howard Dayton: 00:42:36

And when you're isolated, that's a real challenge for

Howard Dayton: 00:42:41

us as a newly married couple.

Howard Dayton: 00:42:42

It's been great.

Howard Dayton: 00:42:43

I mean, we bring on the sequestering.

Howard Dayton: 00:42:47

We were, we couldn't be happier, but all kidding aside, that's, that's a

Howard Dayton: 00:42:53

huge challenge for a lot of people.

Howard Dayton: 00:42:57

It would be a significant challenge for me today had I not been married

Howard Dayton: 00:43:06

and was living alone with my dog.

Howard Dayton: 00:43:08

You know what I mean?

Howard Dayton: 00:43:09

That would have, uh, to present real, really tough, tough time for me.

Marshall Adler: 00:43:17

Yeah.

Marshall Adler: 00:43:17

I also wonder about like my, I mentioned my father being a child of

Marshall Adler: 00:43:22

depression going through World War II.

Marshall Adler: 00:43:25

He always had a sense that, well, this too shall pass so we can

Marshall Adler: 00:43:32

survive this no matter what happened.

Marshall Adler: 00:43:34

And I'm wonder whether our society has that resilience, you know, the world war

Marshall Adler: 00:43:44

II generation, they were just humble, they raised their family, they had a

Marshall Adler: 00:43:50

resiliency that was amazing to deal with.

Marshall Adler: 00:43:56

You know, my father, again, he lost two children, but he was

Marshall Adler: 00:43:58

the happiest guy in the world.

Marshall Adler: 00:43:59

He just, he just was, and he didn't worry like my friend Ted had that passed away.

Marshall Adler: 00:44:07

He loved my parents and he used to ask my father, um, how come

Marshall Adler: 00:44:12

you don't worry about anything?

Marshall Adler: 00:44:14

And he says, all my wife, Florence does all the worrying for me, which was true.

Marshall Adler: 00:44:19

My father never worried.

Marshall Adler: 00:44:21

My mother always worried.

Marshall Adler: 00:44:23

So there was a synergy between them.

Marshall Adler: 00:44:26

But I think now with especially younger people with social media and somebody

Marshall Adler: 00:44:36

concerned about how many likes they get on something on a Facebook page

Marshall Adler: 00:44:43

to me is almost the antithesis of what my father mentally knew how to go

Marshall Adler: 00:44:49

through life because my father would not have cared one iota about how

Marshall Adler: 00:44:59

many likes you had a Facebook page.

Marshall Adler: 00:45:01

You wouldn't know about it, he wouldn't care, it would be irrelevant to him.

Marshall Adler: 00:45:05

And I need that in a positive way because whatever life brought to

Marshall Adler: 00:45:08

him, he was able to handle it.

Marshall Adler: 00:45:11

And with society the way it is now, I just wonder if our society is as, uh,

Marshall Adler: 00:45:18

as, as equipped as the World War II generation was to deal with adversity

Marshall Adler: 00:45:24

and I hate to say it, but I would, at this point have had to make a guess on.

Marshall Adler: 00:45:29

I would probably say we're not as equipped.

Howard Dayton: 00:45:32

Yea, I think it's an individual up to the individual

Howard Dayton: 00:45:36

and what's their experience.

Howard Dayton: 00:45:38

What's what's their home life been like?

Howard Dayton: 00:45:41

What's, I mean, there's a lot of factors that that will play in.

Howard Dayton: 00:45:45

To this, but it will clearly be challenging, really

Howard Dayton: 00:45:49

challenging for a lot of people.

Howard Dayton: 00:45:52

I'm just praying that folks will learn from this experience and just become

Howard Dayton: 00:45:58

more able to cope with things that are beyond their control cause this,

Howard Dayton: 00:46:04

this is beyond our control and it's just a really, I think it magnifies

Howard Dayton: 00:46:10

the need to have close relationships with folks to have faith, have a faith.

Howard Dayton: 00:46:19

I mean, all those things really are so significant in our wellbeing, in our

Howard Dayton: 00:46:26

able, in our ability to cope with grief.

Howard Dayton: 00:46:30

There's some basic factors that every one of us on the planet really need.

Marshall Adler: 00:46:35

That's a good point because Steve and I have talked about this

Marshall Adler: 00:46:37

and I'll swing it to Steve in a second.

Marshall Adler: 00:46:40

You know, Steve and I became friends because after Matt passed July

Marshall Adler: 00:46:47

22nd, 2018, we knew we needed help.

Marshall Adler: 00:46:50

So my wife, Debbie went on the internet and just grief support group grief,

Marshall Adler: 00:46:55

help, and grief share popped up.

Marshall Adler: 00:46:58

And Debbie goes, I don't know what this is, but starting next week.

Marshall Adler: 00:47:02

So I said starting next week, sign up either we like it, or we don't.

Marshall Adler: 00:47:07

And we met Steve and Shelly and when Steve started he said

Marshall Adler: 00:47:13

that it was really interesting.

Marshall Adler: 00:47:15

I've told the story many times, he said, how many people here have taken

Marshall Adler: 00:47:20

courses on grief, raise your hand.

Marshall Adler: 00:47:23

And of course everybody was there was like, looking like I

Marshall Adler: 00:47:25

haven't taken a course on grief.

Marshall Adler: 00:47:26

Why in the world would I ever take a course on grief?

Marshall Adler: 00:47:30

And obviously Steve knew the answer because nobody's going

Marshall Adler: 00:47:32

to take a course on grief until you're in grief and you need it.

Marshall Adler: 00:47:36

You want to avoid it because who wants to grief, but it's just

Marshall Adler: 00:47:40

something that's going to happen.

Marshall Adler: 00:47:41

And so Steve I've talked so much about how important is to have a

Marshall Adler: 00:47:48

support group, you know, in the Jewish religion, when somebody passes away,

Marshall Adler: 00:47:52

you do, what's called Sitting Shivah.

Marshall Adler: 00:47:54

You stay at home your loved ones, your relatives, your friends

Marshall Adler: 00:47:58

come over, they take care of you.

Marshall Adler: 00:48:01

So all you really need to do is go through the grief process,

Marshall Adler: 00:48:04

but it's done as a community.

Howard Dayton: 00:48:05

Yes

Marshall Adler: 00:48:06

And now that's the antithesis of social distancing.

Marshall Adler: 00:48:10

That's the antithesis of everything we're supposed to do with the viruses.

Marshall Adler: 00:48:15

You know, Steve and I've talked about this so how much grief

Marshall Adler: 00:48:18

is in such a different place.

Marshall Adler: 00:48:22

Probably in the first time in a hundred years since the 1918 pandemic,

Marshall Adler: 00:48:28

because you need people you need together and as you need hugs, you

Marshall Adler: 00:48:34

want to kiss people and now you can't.

Marshall Adler: 00:48:37

And that to me is such a conundrum.

Marshall Adler: 00:48:41

You know, we're talking about grief and how, what words would you give to

Marshall Adler: 00:48:47

somebody going through that saying, you know, how do you deal with that

Marshall Adler: 00:48:51

basic human need, generally and specifically, when you're in grief for

Marshall Adler: 00:48:57

human contact, which we can't do now.

Howard Dayton: 00:48:59

Yeah.

Howard Dayton: 00:49:00

I mean the zoom or FaceTime calls, or you get some semblance

Howard Dayton: 00:49:09

of community it's better than, better than a phone call for sure.

Howard Dayton: 00:49:14

But I don't think there's any substitute for looking across the table and

Howard Dayton: 00:49:21

seeing somebody and I mean, that's the human experience I'm really

Howard Dayton: 00:49:26

looking forward to returning to those days where we can, we can do that.

Steve Smelski: 00:49:32

Amen to that.

Steve Smelski: 00:49:33

When we got on the call earlier today, that's the first thing that I wanted to

Steve Smelski: 00:49:37

do is to reach out and to give you a hug.

Steve Smelski: 00:49:40

So I wanted to thank you for coming on today and sharing

Steve Smelski: 00:49:43

your thoughts and your story.

Steve Smelski: 00:49:45

I understand you've got a book you've been working on.

Steve Smelski: 00:49:49

You have one coming out shortly and I wanted to see if you

Steve Smelski: 00:49:52

wanted to give us an update.

Steve Smelski: 00:49:54

People may want to know about the book.

Howard Dayton: 00:49:57

Yes, this one is on one of the areas, not only dealing with

Howard Dayton: 00:50:04

money, but life and it's on honesty and there's over 450 verses in the New and

Howard Dayton: 00:50:14

Old Testament that deal with honesty and the reason, the basic reason that

Howard Dayton: 00:50:22

God wants us to be honest is that it impacts our relationship with him.

Howard Dayton: 00:50:29

The second reason is obviously it impacts people and he really is

Howard Dayton: 00:50:35

interested in us being honest, there's an interesting verse Marshall it's

Howard Dayton: 00:50:40

in Jeremiah 5:1, the Lord speaking,

Howard Dayton: 00:50:44

and he says, you know, go up and down the streets of

Howard Dayton: 00:50:47

Jerusalem looking in her squares.

Howard Dayton: 00:50:51

If you can find one person who deals honestly I will forgive this city.

Howard Dayton: 00:50:59

And Jeremiah, he was, he was telling them that if they don't, if they don't

Howard Dayton: 00:51:05

shape up the Babylonians are going to come in and wipe out Jerusalem.

Howard Dayton: 00:51:09

And basically he was looking for one honest person.

Howard Dayton: 00:51:13

So my challenge at the end of the book is, he's still looking for that one completely

Howard Dayton: 00:51:21

honest person, you know, are you the one for your community, your family?

Howard Dayton: 00:51:26

So that's the thrust of the book.

Howard Dayton: 00:51:32

And I will say this, you know, the Lord , in my experience, when I'm

Howard Dayton: 00:51:38

writing a book, he wants to change me before he changes anybody else.

Howard Dayton: 00:51:44

And so this has been a great journey for me too.

Howard Dayton: 00:51:47

I'm focused on honesty in my own life.

Steve Smelski: 00:51:51

Interesting.

Steve Smelski: 00:51:52

I'm looking forward to reading it when it comes out.

Steve Smelski: 00:51:56

So we'd like to thank you, you again, for joining us today and coming on

Steve Smelski: 00:51:59

and sharing your story and talking about the experiences that you've had.

Steve Smelski: 00:52:04

we can't say enough, and I miss our walks.

Howard Dayton: 00:52:08

Same here, Steve.

Howard Dayton: 00:52:09

Well, I appreciate so much the invitation to be with you and Marshall.

Howard Dayton: 00:52:13

God bless you guys.

Steve Smelski: 00:52:14

Well, thank you very much, Howard

Marshall Adler: 00:52:16

Howard, thank you so much.

Marshall Adler: 00:52:17

I really heard so much about you through Steve and I'm glad I got

Marshall Adler: 00:52:21

the chance to virtually meet you.

Marshall Adler: 00:52:25

And I hope.

Marshall Adler: 00:52:25

I will get a chance to hug you also, I'll take a hug when we can do that.

Marshall Adler: 00:52:30

We got a date.

Howard Dayton: 00:52:31

God bless you guys have a great day

Steve Smelski: 00:52:34

okay.

Howard Dayton: 00:52:34

Thanks.

Howard Dayton: 00:52:35

Bye.

Howard Dayton: 00:52:36

Bye

Marshall Adler: 00:52:38

Steve.

Marshall Adler: 00:52:39

I just want to give you some of my observations about this very interesting

Marshall Adler: 00:52:44

conversation we had with Howard today in the sense that I did not have the pleasure

Marshall Adler: 00:52:50

of knowing him as well as you did.

Marshall Adler: 00:52:53

And when I did my research and saw that he was very involved with the concept

Marshall Adler: 00:52:59

of finishing well, given his background in financial education, I thought it

Marshall Adler: 00:53:07

was really a monetary lesson that people can learn from a financial standpoint.

Marshall Adler: 00:53:14

And after spending the time talking to him today, I realized that it is a life

Marshall Adler: 00:53:22

decision that really deals with life choices that we all have to make on our

Marshall Adler: 00:53:31

timeline, dealing with grief, dealing with our loved ones and how do we make a

Marshall Adler: 00:53:37

tribute to those that we've lost forward.

Marshall Adler: 00:53:43

And that to me was the takeaway from his concept of finishing well.

Marshall Adler: 00:53:48

So I really think it's been something that was different than I thought it

Marshall Adler: 00:53:52

was and I think it's a great message.

Marshall Adler: 00:53:55

I really do.

Steve Smelski: 00:53:56

Yes, I agree.

Steve Smelski: 00:53:58

It is an awesome message.

Steve Smelski: 00:54:00

It actually gives me hope on where I can finis and as much as I've wanted to carry

Steve Smelski: 00:54:07

on Jordan's work, I think I was right.

Steve Smelski: 00:54:11

It is all about finishing well, and it means every aspect of your life.

Steve Smelski: 00:54:15

Just not the financial side of it.

Steve Smelski: 00:54:19

He's been a good friend for me the last seven or eight years,

Steve Smelski: 00:54:23

even before Jordan passed.

Steve Smelski: 00:54:25

We walked and talked a lot of mornings when I was out for my run.

Steve Smelski: 00:54:29

He helped me through the early times, after Jordan's passing, I had a chance to

Steve Smelski: 00:54:34

return the favor as he was helping Bev.

Steve Smelski: 00:54:39

I knew it wasn't just the financial aspect, but he was pretty clear.

Steve Smelski: 00:54:44

Earlier today as we went through the different portions, that there's a lot

Steve Smelski: 00:54:49

of different aspects to look at for finishing well, and I actually take it

Steve Smelski: 00:54:54

as a challenge to what's it mean for you because everybody's on their own

Steve Smelski: 00:54:59

journey and we're not sure when that day comes or how long we have to achieve it,

Steve Smelski: 00:55:06

but he's helping others finish welding.

Steve Smelski: 00:55:09

I really enjoyed having him on it.

Steve Smelski: 00:55:10

I've missed talking with them.

Marshall Adler: 00:55:13

Very interesting guy and I do look forward to taking a walk

Marshall Adler: 00:55:19

with him and you when we can all do it together and I give him a hug then.

Steve Smelski: 00:55:23

Awesome, me too.

Steve Smelski: 00:55:25

Thanks everybody for joining today.

Steve Smelski: 00:55:27

And listening to Marshall and I have a conversation with Howard Dayton.

Marshall Adler: 00:55:32

I hope everybody has a good day and talk to you soon.

Steve Smelski: 00:55:37

Thank you for joining us on Hope thru Grief with your cohost

Steve Smelski: 00:55:41

Marshall Adler and Steve Smelski.

Marshall Adler: 00:55:45

We hope our episode today was helpful and informative

Marshall Adler: 00:55:50

since we are not medical or mental health professionals, we cannot

Marshall Adler: 00:55:55

and will not provide any medical, psychological or mental health advice.

Marshall Adler: 00:56:01

Therefore, if you or anyone, you know, requires medical or mental health

Marshall Adler: 00:56:06

treatment, please contact a medical or mental health professional immediately.